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Finally...the largest of them all! by theropod1 Finally...the largest of them all! by theropod1
My reconstruction of S. aegyptiacus.
Some told me it looked "whale-like", others found it too bulky. So what?
There's a base for that, and that's the fact Spinosaurus had damn vertebrae, indicating a very long and deep body.
I used my skull reconstruction to fit IPHG 1912 VIII 19's postcrania and dentary together with MSNM V4047's rostrum and filled in what was left with the proportions of Cristatusaurus/Suchomimus and Baryonyx. Due to the much longer vertebrae seen in the holotype, I increased the torso's lenght a bit. I could have done the same with the tail, but I left it like it was.
In the end, the whole thing ended up at ~15m in tip-to-tip lenght, which means in axial lenght as usually given it would be ~16m or more (for comparison, sue the T. rex gets about 70cm shorter than fully stretched if it is in a normal pose).
For mass, my guess would be 12t+

This is not overly liberal but it is a different approach to the far too common reconstruction of an elongate, long-necked animal, contrary to what the remains indicate.
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:icongrisador:
grisador Featured By Owner Sep 7, 2015
Awesome work here :nod:
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2015  Student Traditional Artist
Thanks!

It’s of course outdated now, and sorry for the sensationalism in the title (because that’s also outdated). Consider it a snapshot of what _Spinosaurus_ had to be considered to be a year ago.
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:icongrisador:
grisador Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2015
You are welcome :D


I don't see this model was that outdated; because of many reasons.
Like new models legs are a bit too much short; ı've seen the Fossil and the legs aren't that short.
I can give you links İF you want :)
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2015  Student Traditional Artist
Yes, please do so. I don’t think the actual fossil is on display yet, but its gross morphology has been described (Ibrahim et al. 2014) and definitely has proportionately shorter hind limbs, apparently too short for traditional theropod bipedalism.
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:icongrisador:
grisador Featured By Owner Edited Sep 8, 2015
Being an internet nerd has obvious advantages ! (Lol) ;)

Here :
static1.squarespace.com/static…
4.bp.blogspot.com/-h1Z19KGcsmE…

Clearly the so-called 'short' legs are taller than an avarage man; althrought The skeleton actually İS from a juvenile !
You can see its isn't reached its prime adul size yer; its tail & spine is too small for an adult.
And; of course; there is always The possiblity of the leg fossil might belong to a different animal while spine is from a Spinosaurus; ı don't know.
Currently ı wait for further Fossil discoveres; judging The ENTİRE spinosaurus species from only one (unclear) Fossil specimen seems wrong. :|


The new reconstriction isn't seem entirely accurate :
4.bp.blogspot.com/-9Qp-PdTbdS8…


Actually most semi aquatic birds walk perfectly with short limbs by The way :)
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Sep 8, 2015  Student Traditional Artist
Oh, I thought you meant to say you actually saw it in person…

I’m well aware that the neotype is a sub-adult. Absolute size of these legs isn’t what matters, it’s relative size that is important (beside, that thing has a 61cm femur, that would rather correspond to small or sub-adult Allosaurus than a sub-adult Spinosaurus, and this trend is apparent throughout the entire hindlimb and pelvic girdle). You just need to look at the skeletal models and measurements in Ibrahim et al.’s paper. There were initial doubts about the reconstruction’s accuracy (but even following those proposals, mine would still be too long-legged), but they were ruled out by a detailed response of the authors on one of the relevant blogs (Mark Witton’s to be exact).

A possible status as a chimaera has also been made unlikely by the fact that another specimen, originally described by Stromer as "Spinosaurus B" shows similar proportions.

This isn’t just a matter of short legs though, it’s a matter of the position of the center of mass, which Ibrahim et al. found to be more anterior than the feet could realistically reach in a normal theropod posture. That means it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for their model to stand on two legs.
They used that as evidence for suggesting that Spinosaurus was a quadruped. An alternative has been proposed by Cau, which has Spinosaurus with a strongly S-curved, retracted neck and a more upright torso to shift more of its body weight backwards and be able to stand on two legs.
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:icongrisador:
grisador Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2015
İf ı give wrong impression; ı am sorry ! :(
Sadly; ı never will be lucky enough to see a real dinosaur Fossil
(Since ı live in turkey; which it was in the middle of Tethys in the Crateceous period; Sadly)
But ı am lucky enough to learn about english & research about prehistoric life.

I know the detailed response; ı read it too. İts still doubt an full grown spinosaurus legs could be very short. İnfant dinosaur limbs always be Odd; since they grow into normal proportions when they grew adults.
(A good example is Dryosaurus - even Nanotyrannus if you considering those infant Rex'es)
Personally ı simply wait for further Fossil discoveries; hope they will found a new specimen; that eventually clear things up :nod:

I know the ''CrocoPelican'' model; it seems more pleasurable than the Quedrupedal 'knuckle walking' model as the Claws (however how much they advanced) probably broke\crush under that weight.
But it was their model; İF the proportions are entirely correct; the animal might get help from its tail. (Which seems Very long & muscular at new model)
Or the S-curved neck pose could be the possible case; as the new model's Neck look very Long; pelican like
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Sep 9, 2015  Student Traditional Artist
I didn’t want to criticise you, I just misunderstood. I hope you get to see real dinosaur fossils some day, if not in your home country, then somewhere else. There are many interesting exhibits all over Europe that you may get the chance to see if you travel a bit.

The general trend among dinosaurs would appear to be young specimens having proportionately longer, not shorter legs ("Nanotyrannus" is a nice example of that, but basically it’s the case in pretty much every theropod I know a growth series of). Also, while the Spinosaurus neotype is certainly not fully grown, it’s also not an infant. It’s not likely it’s proportions would have changed massively.

Yes, I also prefer the pelican-necked model. There wasn’t anything in the description of the forelimb that pointed to the sort of structural modifications needed to be used for quadrupedal walking, on the contrary, everything there is seems to closely match other spinosaurs. An unmodified theropod forelimb is unsuitable for walking on it, at least in an animal this large. That’s why I consider a sort of "modified bipedality" the most parsimonious explanation.
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(1 Reply)
:icongiganotosaurinae:
Giganotosaurinae Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2014
You should update this drawing, even though I like how you made ol' Spino.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
I’ll make a new drawing once the material is described.
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:iconspinosaurus1:
spinosaurus1 Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
your spinosaurus looks like it has serious back issues :D (Big Grin) 
i like it
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
Thanks, and yes, if you want to call it that, it has one serious issue with its back!
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:icontraheripteryx:
Traheripteryx Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist

Finally a realistic looking Spinosaurus!

But I prefer more feathers... :D

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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Understandable. By now quarter-yearly I'm thinking: Oh dear, another one that I now realise I should have given more plumage...
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:icontraheripteryx:
Traheripteryx Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Und einen etwas weniger ge-shrink-wrapp-ten Kopf! :D
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:icontraheripteryx:
Traheripteryx Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I mean... Protofeathers...
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2013
Hi theropod, I did a GDI analysis to IPHG 1912 and then I scaled it up to 15,6 m long and got 15,000+ kg.

It is actually about 30% heavier than I usually though, and a lot more similar to my first guess.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Thank's a lot for telling me! That sounds very interesting.

What images did you use for it?
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013
I used Hartmans IPHG 1912 and then scaled it up to 15,6 m, I did the same for Suchomimus and I got 3,970 kg so I guess It can be accurate :)
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Testing it with Cristatusaurus is a good idea. But how did you make the slices (what did you do with the neural spines?), and what dorsal view did you use?
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013

Also, my estimate for MUCPv-CH1 varied from 6,590 to 6,813 kg, the first one was incredibly similar to the figure Seebacher gave (6,594 kg) and the second one was surprisingly similar to the figure Hartman gave (6800 kg).

 

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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Seebacher and hartman also overlap for MUCPv-ch1, depending on the density.
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013

Of course :)

 

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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2013

I just did three drawings from different views, I just did the drawings section by section and estimated the weight of each section, I had to separate the spines from the torso to give a good estimate, I precisely used the same dorsal views as in the Article: A Computational Analysis of limb and body dimensions with implications for locomotion.

But instead of using 3D models based on mounted skeletons I used 2D models based on the Hartmans skeletals.

And they were surprisingly accurate, I gave 3900 kg for the holotype of Suchomimus tenerensis, Which matches almost perfectly with the estimation Seebacher gave in 2001 of 3816 kg.  

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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Good work then!

What I meant was: Where did you take the data you needed to make a dorsal or anterior view from? I don't recall any rigorous spinosaur-dorsal-view skeletal existing.
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013

I mean, I just imagined how would spinosaurus look dorsaly based on Acrcoanthosaurus spines,  but I had to reduce the ribcage.

I used the 3D Acrocanthosaurus as a basis of how much flesh could have been attached to the spines, then scaled to Spinosaurus.

 

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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Then your estimate is even pretty conservative, since that acrocanthosaurus had very little flesh on its spines.

That Acrocanthosaurus is probably a good base for the dorsal view.

Have I ever suggested you to join at World Of Animals (theworldofanimals.proboards.co...? You should really share your results on that forum, the community there would be very interested!
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(1 Reply)
:icontitanlizard:
titanlizard Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2013
very realistic, but i think a Spino with a 1,9m skull is longer than 15-16m. Probably 17-19m.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
1,9m skull is pretty debatable, I'd favour a 1,8m one.
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:icondinobirdman:
DinoBirdMan Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student Artist
It's the hump-backed version, cross between bison-like and camel-like!:D
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
actually it is supposed to be a ridge-like structure, thick and probably muscular near the base, with a triangular, tapering cross-section, and mainly consisting of some fascia and the bones in the top.
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:icondinobirdman:
DinoBirdMan Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student Artist
Okay then, I just wonder where am I gonna uses other spinosaurids as a hump-backed version.
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:iconthemorlock:
TheMorlock Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student General Artist
Love it. Very fleshy.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
thanks!
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:iconthemorlock:
TheMorlock Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2013  Student General Artist
You're welcome. :)
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2013
Pretty cool drawing, although my guess is that 12 tonnes is too low for this specimen, it looks at least 14 tonnes using a 11 m long Suchomimus with extra weight scaled to 16 m long, still pretty good drawing.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jun 12, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Thanks!
You may be right. 12t is just my lower bound to its weight, that's why I wrote "12t+"

I fear if I wrote 14t, I would soon get tons of comments saying how ridiculously high my figure was. Anyway, 14t is reasonable.
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:iconmegalosaurid:
Megalosaurid Featured By Owner Jun 12, 2013
Your welcome, I just think it is reasonable to asume potentially larger figures, specially for the largest meat eater.
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:iconbrolyeuphyfusion9500:
About Spinosaurus, what do you think about this: [link]
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jun 11, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
damn, that commenter is really thick headed.

"it had a sail!"

"there´s no reason to suspect this, the spines are more similar to non-sailbacked animals"

"it had a sai, end of debate"

What does this guy think is the natural purpose of the spinosus process? Certainly not spanning skin.
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:icongigadino96:
Gigadino96 Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
I think this is a fantastic job depicting a fantastic animal.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Thanks! You're the first person who doesn't think it looks "obese" "whale-like" or "hulk-like"!
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:icongigadino96:
Gigadino96 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2013
I think it's very realistic. The Spinosaurus slim with sailing are obsolete now, perhaps it is more realistic with muscular sail and robust. After all, it was the biggest land-living meat eater every lived :D.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
That's exactly what I tought when doing it. Why should it be such a skinny, slim-tailed and -necked animal? I have the impression the vast majority of people are misinformed or biased on Spinosaurus, since they always make it sort of the same size as T. rex or Giganotosaurus and merely a bit longer due to the tail.
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:icontheropod1:
theropod1 Featured By Owner May 21, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Not more than Hartmans Baryonyx or Suchomimus actually. You have to watch the ribcage and abdomen more closely, it is absolutely normal.
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:iconbrolyeuphyfusion9500:
What has that Spinosaurus been eating?
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:iconfragillimus335:
Fragillimus335 Featured By Owner May 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Spino needs to watch his weight! :D
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